Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues/Archive 1

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CATATAN: Ini adalah Archive of the "Community Lounge" diskusi sebelum nama halaman diubah

Hello all. We have just gone through some major processes that have brought us into frequent contacts, both in collaborative and controversial ways. During this time, we all get some ideas about their ideas and views.

I think each of us sometimes has a conversation here and there, in the process of editing, where we find somewhat enlightening. However, such conversations only occur when the editing process somehow swings into a larger discussion area. So sometimes the times of open communication only happen sporadically.

So I want to offer this page as another alternative. This can be a place where we can expose different views and ideas openly. By the way, I can also imagine the following additional ideas; one space for any major disputes or protracted discussions. Other for every general discussion, and general conversation. We can also have one waiting room for editors affiliated with Palestine, one for editors affiliated with Israel, and for both groups together. Hope it sounds good.

Anyway, please post here if you want. this is all still in the experimental stage. We can see further ways to expand this and refine it, because everything goes forward. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 02:35, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

Video Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues/Archive 1

The scope of discussion

Please post here. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 02:36, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

Ok, Steve, some random thoughts. New barnstar/award system, such as the Sri Lankan project? Some places to mark every little success in collaboration in the I-P arena? You are very energetic, maybe you can find a way to recruit some uninvolved users (including admins who can work with us in articles and apply new discretion sanctions, etc.). Would you like to place a link to this project on the wikiproyek of Isr and Pales (or too early) items? Give me Shirley Temple, Mr. Lounge Lizard. Thank you.... HG | Talk 03:16, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

thanks. in fact I'm thinking more about having a conversation here about the problem, rather than launching a new effort. but thank you very much. we can see what comes up. now I hope to wait and see how this page is formed over time. it's great to have your feedback here, as usual. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 03:24, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

It's always nice to have a place to get rid of ideas. As I recently published the existence of Wikipedia: Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles because just by glancing at a few pages shows that some people just out there do it as usual. What about HEADER for Israel/Palestine-related pages saying something like "The WIkipedia community has made a policy to ensure civil editing and NPOV on pages about this topic. [Wikipedia: Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles | see this link]] for more information. " With friendly image icons. I do not know who can officially do such a thing, if I have to recommend it there ?? thanks. Carol Moore 05:15, January 20, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

I do not know specifically, but that might be a good topic for us to discuss here in general. feel free to let us know which articles seem too controversial to you. I do not want to guarantee I can always respond quickly, or immediately add any problems, but this may be a topic that will be discussed here sooner or later. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 05:58, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

Maybe Carol and Steve can create WikiProject Banners (templates)? Maybe the template could mention ArbCom medicine. (I also added it to our project page.) Maybe we can do a different assessment, in addition to quality - rate the level and intensity of the edited dispute! HG | Speak 19:16, January 20, 2008 (UTC) For comparison, see Sri Lanka {{WPSLR Banner}} . thanks. HG | Talk 19:19, January 20, 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I can not. I do not know much about how to do the graph here. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 13:24, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

Please see the #WikiProject banner. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:18, May 25, 2008 (UTC)

Maps Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration/Current Article Issues/Archive 1

Graphs

There is already a demand for userbox and is now a barnstar. I think something that combines Palestinian and Israeli flags may be appropriate? Durova ^Contents! 07:25, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

It's probably driving people out, actually from both sides. If we have nothing, there can be no political symbol at all. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 13:26, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

Here's a picture of a double flag you might use, if not here, somewhere. I do not mind the flags, but I do not think that is suitable for some people. Another idea is to mix logos from Israeli and Palestinian WikiProjects. Or humor wp-Israel and wp-Palestine humor? Wait, this is an idea. One of the difficulties with the political symbol is that we need to consider the sensitivity of both eagles and pigeons. We do not want to look like we love POV dovish. So what about logos with eagles and doves nodding each other? Oy, I'm full of weird ideas today. HG | Talk 15:57, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree with you that we need to be careful. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not a real project for people who want to work together or seek peace. this is an article for people who edit articles on Wikipedia in this area, and want to exchange ideas about such articles, even if they really do not trust and dislike groups on the other side of this issue. /dd>

As far as visual bundles, what about the blue circle? or simple mathematical equations? or quill chicken? or not at all? I am more inclined toward simplicity, than actually finding something. thanks. sorry to be too boring, by the way. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:14, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

Durova, how about the image putting the pieces back together? Like this restored pottery from ancient Israel/Palestine? HG | Talk 17:23, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

Beautiful symbolism, HG. Exactly selected. Anyone mind? Durova ^Contents! 20:23, January 21, 2008 (UTC)

Awards

What we need is something that connects Israelis and Palestinians, but without political or national implications. Think Whaddaya? & lt; el eland/ talk edited & gt; 04:44, February 6, 2008 (UTC)

This award looks amazing, thanks! Do we want that as a logo for Projects, banners, userbox? Here are two other image options I'm working on. First, the stamp of 1921 in which the Arabs and Jews reached a compromise (impasse?) With Britain, which made an exaggerated print with 'Palestine' and Hebrew initials for 'Eretz Yisrael.' Alternatively, I am on the verge of permission for a photo of the restored pottery, along the lines of discussion above. [1] What do you think? Who can do it? Thank you HG | Speak 09:27, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I love the concept behind the pottery, but I wonder if it might be too subtle. I also liked the stamp, but it might bother some editors for saying Palestine and not Israel, despite having aleph yud for "Eretz Yisrael", Land of Israel. Interestingly, the article discusses the Hebrew prints shown on stamps: Land of Israel # Land of Israel and State of Israel.

I spent some time last week looking in the Commons for a good picture. I really like the Picture: The Israeli satellite image in January 2003.jpg, but I hope it does not have political boundaries that it overlays. If other editors like it, I'll ask the editor who uploads it if he has unlimited copies.

I think falafel will be a good barnstar. - Malik ShabazzÃ, (talkÃ, Ã, Â · contribs) 19:26, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Great. Tell us what you find with satellite images. In the meantime, what about making that barnstar? Thank you, HG | Talk 19:51, February 7, 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately, NASA superimposes political boundaries on its satellite imagery. I found a picture of the area, focused on Israel, Palestine and Sinai, where most of its borders are so pale that it is almost invisible: Picture: NASA Middle East.jpg

I will work in barnstar for the next few days. I will soon start some other templates, and we can see if there is a consensus about an image. - Malik ShabazzÃ, (talkÃ, Ã, Â · contribs) 16:43, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

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The Most Successful Conflict Resolution Route on this issue?

We all know that Wikipedia: Requests_for_arbitration/Palestine-Israel_articles creates a working group on this topic to provide more guidance. Meanwhile, we held a two-year debate about the same topic in the Jewish Lobby about the definition of the term and whether it is very antisemit. So I made the following comment Talk: Jewish_lobby # Please_Note_New_Arbitration_Resolution_on_Israel.2FPalestine_and_Related_issues here. Any idea?

In the meantime I think it's time we finally get some WP: dispute resolution happens here.

The question is WHICH which we will start with under Wikipedia: Dispute_resolution # Step_6: _Turn_to_others_for_help? It seems that this has been too much sticky goalkeeper with so many editors involved (and too many partisans hanging around) to: Help the editor, Request a comment, Ask for a third opinion, Ask the subject-specific WikiProject Ask for help on the relevant noticeboard.

Maybe it's time for Informal mediation that says: If things get a bit complicated, it might be useful to ask some cool heads to find and help. Sometimes an editor who provides a third opinion or responds to requests for comments may be willing to help mediate disputes, if requested. WP: Cabal Mediation can also help resolve disputes without resorting to formal mediation. And of course they must carefully read and think about what is written in the Resolution in Israel/Palestine and the related pages mentioned above.

Carol Moore 01:24, January 22, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

hi. thanks for that idea. However, I am not sure that we are a group of dispute resolution. this may be more a place to provide a forum for discussion of disputes, for those who want to. As you may know, we may be able to help contact other groups already working in the field of mediation. If you would like to contact members here individually, and discuss with them, some may want to assist you in resolving the dispute. Alternatively, you can start your own business, and then come back here and tell us what it is, what problems you face, and what you feel you want to do, or what ideas you want us to discuss. so please feel free to let us know. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 14:14, January 22, 2008 (UTC)

For a while other editors went to Arbitration Enforcement on the Israeli/Palestinian issue, there was some debate, the initiator said maybe mediation was enough, I chimed in saying maybe arbitrage is the best way after all, but at least WP: Mediation_Cabal. See contributions there.

Also, I am wondering if this page in Collaboration needs to be more structured to distinguish it from the talk page, or should it be talked about in the conversation? Ã, :-) First time using one yourself. Carol Moore 14:48, January 22, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

Actually, what I'm thinking is that this "Community Lounge" page may actually be open, and will not be specifically about collaboration or related to a particular topic. The reason is that it will free us to raise any topic here, and then maybe to separate them if we see enough interest in one topic to give separate pages. so this is the page for almost any topic; discuss collaborations, discuss disputes, put opposing issues, share "good works" or discuss Wikipedia procedures, or how to create tables or formatting, or whatever.

By the way, I think at one point to maybe make a page for an article on political issues, and one for Wikipedia discussion, but maybe now we better open -is adjusted, just to see where the interests of people really are. of course, this is all open for discussion too, so if people really want this page to be used for a particular topic, we might be able to do it too. I just want to mention all of this now, because we are still in the early period now. But of course all this may change or be discussed. thanks. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 17:09, January 22, 2008 (UTC)

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Frustration!

Here's the part we can use to vent about how frustrating it can be to edit this page!

What's really frustrating is that if you only intend to work on ONE article on this topic, as I did with the orginal (Option Samson because I am a big anti-war fighter), you find in research You other articles about the overly pathetic topic of POV that you can not help engage in more articles than you have an intention to get involved. Others, like anti-Arabic I end up doing a lot of clean editing for people whose first language is not English. I was too tired to find out how relevant the information was, so at least I let other people struggle with the problem. :-) I had a great time clearing James Petras today - hopefully anon. IPs that shout racist Nazis in summary summary on the last person who deleted POV material is unreasonable and not sourced will not do it again. Oi! In the meantime, I'm halfway adding a lot of good stuff to some pages about other topics that are kept aside. But if it all helps stop WWIII, I think it's worth it !! Carol Moore 18:07, January 22, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

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"Committee for Open Discussion of Zionism" requires page

I just found "The Committee for Open Discussion of Zionism" http://www.codz.org/and there seem to be quite a number of internet links discussing it for a nice page stub just in case anyone wants to take it.Carol Moore 00: 53 , January 27, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

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The Heart of the matter

(extracted from user: Nishidani talk page by user: ceedjee)

It was very helpful after years of debates about the Jewish Lobby article when some of us actually opened several books (two online, one hardcover) to find a reliable source that supports the use of the term "Jewish Lobby" as a descriptive term antisemitic. It even finds newer and better quotes about the same topics of the author than the truncated old quotes used to "prove" different points. I also reread and made notes on Samson Option (the book) for Samson Option articles, as well as one hard cover book and an online book, though not very successful in making the article more NPVO. Should review the current problem that WP: Gaming system is being discouraged. GOOD BOOK !! Carol Moore 17:04, January 27, 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

Nishidani, to partially answer some of your concerns here, I feel that peripheral views, minority views, etc., can be cited if they are a large part of the debate occurring in important sources elsewhere. Is there a theory that moves abandoned Palestinians, or robs them of them? If so, all right; if that view often appears in a debate or argument between the two sides, then it can be cited, even if it first appears in a relatively unknown source. However, if there is a primary view that supports the various points related to Israel's right to exist, then the article will reflect the overall acceptance of those points, if necessary. Doing so does not mean that we do not include all dissent; it means that these differences of opinion can go into separate sections, where we reflect some disagreeing parties. BTW, I realize that you already know some of these points, but I want to respond to your concerns, which have a lot of validity. --Steve, Sm8900 (talk) 16:50, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

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Personal Attacks on Users: Jayjg and complain about WP: Game system vs. WP: AGF

I am posting this here because this is a more informal situation. But frankly wondering if this page is overkill and the collabortion page is good enough? Mind??

• Custom: Contribution/Eichman is a new account - possibly sockpuppet - which attacks User: Jayjg on many pages, turned out to be edited by jayjg. Obviously this kind of thing is BAD and Jayjg or someone who knows what to do will get that account banned immediately.
• Also, what is the proper sentence structure to assert that someone is using WP: Idontlikeit or WP: Gaming system or anything that refers directly to motivations that conflict with the edits? And what is the Wiki solution for WP: Gaming system editor? Carol Moore 22:22, 3 February 2008 (UTC) Carolmooredc {talk}

For now, this section is closed for further discussion. Please see my response for a similar post in Project Talk. HG | Talk 22:53, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

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WikiProject Banner

This has been discussed earlier here. Please see the scope of #Discussion

I copied the wikicode from Template: WPSLR Banner, and created Template: WPIPC Banner.

Place {{WPIPC Banner}} at the top of the article discussion page under another WikiProject banner. This will generate this banner:

I see articles that require collaboration, moderation, and where to find help. Since I can not find project banners, I created this one. --Timeshifter (talk) 19:17, May 25, 2008 (UTC)

Source of the article : Wikipedia